Some people will argue with me in that these GNU/Linux distributions are as advanced as you want them to be. Well, of course Linux is all about choice. I took the user base perspective though and what I have for you today is a few distros which do not hide the manual (or for people like me, beautiful) underlying configuration. Also, by using the distro itself, you will learn a lot about Linux and how an operating system works. It is a fun and useful experience, believe me and never be scared of the command line 
It is your friend.
Arch Linux
A distro I am currently playing with right now, Arch is focused on simplicity and elegance. A great Beginners Wiki Article guides you through the process of setting up your first Arch Linux system. There is a lot of manual editing in nano and other command line tools, but it is not very difficult and it is all explained in great detail and a very beginner-friendly manner. Arch’s pacman package manger system turned out to be a very lightweight and quality tool for managing the software installed on your system. If you cannot find something, just check the community repository. The resulting system is always pretty stable and fast. Plus, as it is a rolling-release distro, pacman takes care of your packages so you’re never behind on the newest in FOSS. Two thumbs up!
Slackware
While I am not very familiar with the original Slackware (I have used many derivatives, like SLAX and Vector Linux), Slackware also concentrates on a type of KISS principle, in part at the cost of user-friendliness. Many people run Slackware on servers, some even on laptops. What they like is the stability and the experience gained from using such a system. As for package management - Slackware’s can do the basic tasks, like remove, install and upgrade, however it cannot track dependencies, so it is up to you to solve them or you can use one of the many automatic dependency-resolving tools such as slapt-get.
“In this context, “simple” refers to the viewpoint of system design, rather than ease of use. Most software in Slackware uses the configuration mechanisms supplied by the software’s original authors; there are few distribution-specific mechanisms.”
Gentoo
By the way, I would like to hear a Gentoo user in the comments explain some more about what the benefits of Gentoo Linux are. Most of the newer Linux users connect Gentoo with compiling apps locally. I personally like to use other distros, because I mostly just use binaries (Gentoo has some binaries too) for some programs and in other cases compile my apps when I really want to, which I am already able to do in any other distro. So, why would you choose Gentoo? Well, first if you would like to learn how compiling works, Gentoo is an excellent choice. You will be able to get a distro specifically tailored for your system (brings in a slight increase in overall speed). The package management system is called Portage with the emerge tool (I think it is written in python), based on Ports in the BSDs (what is different is that Portage contains ebuilds). Compiling everything enables you to have softer dependencies, more bleeding-edge packages and you can install the system in three different “Stages”, depending on how much of the system you wish to compile yourself (only Stage 3 installs are officially supported!).
- Stage1: System must be bootstrapped and the base system must be compiled.
- Stage2: System has already been bootstrapped, but the base system must be compiled.
- Stage3: System has already been bootstrapped and the base system already compiled.
Well, I hope this short article made you at least a bit curious about how it is to use these distros. Why not give them a try? At least visit their homepages and take a look at some more information. Is there anything you’d want to add? I’d love to read some comments from users and people new to Linux!
November 23rd, 2008 at 12:18
You could make a user-friendly distro like Ubuntu advanced by removing the GUI and working solely with CLI. For instance, you can replace Firefox with a command-line-based browser, and remove the X windowing system. Use nano or vim as a replacement for openoffice, and search the net for CLI-driven media players and photo editors. In short, any distro can become advanced by removing all the GUI and solely working in CLI.
November 23rd, 2008 at 13:36
True. But there are always the other parts of the system to consider; package management, installation method, the way the kernel is built etc.
November 23rd, 2008 at 15:15
Good to see - and again, this is something I must say for the Linux Void podcast as well: It is good to se you recommend some distributions which require a bit more effort and learning, but will reward you as well.
This is really also a recommendation of the BSDs - FreeBSD does the source-based ports brilliantly. I was writing to Chess Griffin of Linux Reality the other day (see http://syntaktisk.dk/?q=node/151), and it turns out that he is really getting into the BSDs, particularly FreeBSD and OpenBSD. He was interviewed on BSDTalk, too.
If you have a spare machine powerful enough to do some building, I would really recommend trying out FreeBSD.
November 23rd, 2008 at 19:23
Many, including myself, consider the lack of dependency tracking in Slackware an advantage. Dependency hell and circular dependencies are never issues. One other advantage to Slackware is the inclusion of header files and documentation in packages, instead of seperate -doc, -dev packages such as in other distros.
November 23rd, 2008 at 22:30
Might I also suggest http://www.sourcemage.org/ as an addition to this list? BTW - removing the GUI or using nano does not make a distro ‘advanced’ .
Simply installing any of the above mentioned distros requires alot more effort than any Debian based distro. If you’ve never tried Slackware you just wouldn’t understand.
Personally, I like Slackware for my servers but also for lower-end hardware that just wouldn’t run Debian, well not with the same speed of Slackware anyway.
November 23rd, 2008 at 22:47
For me, one of the big advantages of using Gentoo was that I learned a great deal about how my system worked by using it, even if I did have some major headaches while trying to sort out issues in configuration files in the process. I suppose I also have a better appreciation for what the kernel is and how the many parts of it work together.
Gentoo was also quite fast, possibly the fastest running distro I used on my old laptop.
November 23rd, 2008 at 22:57
One major advantage of the minimalist package-management that Slackware uses is that when you install something, you’re doing it on purpose. If there are special dependencies, you know about them because you intentionally installed them as well. This may not be a big deal if you’ve got virtually unlimited hard drive space, ram, and processor power, but if you’re doing an install on a small server or netbook, accidentally pulling in a GB of Gnome/Mono libraries (for example) for a single program can make a major mess.
Gentoo is a nice medium between Slackware-like deliberation and (K)Ubuntu-like “click to install everything you need” ease-of-use. It tracks dependencies, but because most packages are compiled on install rather than pre-compiled, you have a lot of control over exactly which optional features of each package that you want enabled.
November 23rd, 2008 at 23:15
I am so glad the heading has advanced in it. I like all 3 of these advanced distros, however they take more of my time. I love to play around with linux, most people just want to get on the net and get stuff done. That is the biggest reason I can think of to stay away from these 3, unless you just like to play with linux(I do). My friends and family all just want there computers working and so to save time I just install Linux Mint for them.
November 24th, 2008 at 00:14
Someday someone should write an article on what a hassle it is installing/compiling 64 bit apps on a 64 bit OS. For example Slamd64 is a 64 bit port of Slackware which is also a multi-lib distro i.e. works with both 64 and 32 bit apps. However compiling 64 bit apps from source is not straight forward and usually the process varies. Unfortunately very few packages like Mozes actually tell you how to compile their apps as a 64bit one. It is high time that the source code providers tell their users how to compile a 64bit app in their INSTALL or README files. Whats the point of having a 64bit OS if you can only compile 32bit apps by default.
November 24th, 2008 at 01:41
“Simply installing any of the above mentioned distros requires alot more effort than any Debian based distro. If you’ve never tried Slackware you just wouldn’t understand.”
That may be true but the fact that Arch is a rolling release and has the latest softaware, in my opinion, is a stronger benefit than an easy initial installation. I’ve had my fill of 6-month based distros (if you want to get the more current packages). It’s nice to know you won’t have to reinstall the operating system more then once.
November 24th, 2008 at 02:22
Gentoo is true killer when it comes to flexibility and speed… of deployments.
It can be installed in 18 minutes on server yet allowing for some deliberations about kernel options. If you take precompiled one (OpenVZ, for example) you can install in 15 minutes.
If you’re not able to perform so quick, stay calm: perfect documentation will guide you through standard installation on x86 or x86_64 as well as on freaky remote old SPARC console. Gentoo’s documentation cannot be over-estimated.
And when it comes to the flexibility: you can choose from enormous catalog of software. Portage allows easy change of ./configure parameters through standard USE flags system.
Through use flags (and also with recent system profiles!) you can make your Gentoo perfectly stable server, programmer workstation, sysadmin testing machine, home router or office station for your grandma
Gentoo still gets high when it comes to bleeding edge: you can try OpenRC and baselayout-2 to enjoy modern booting process, rc tools allowing system services management, modern Portage checking for reversed dependencies allowing for better system consistency, scripts allowing for changing compiler, toolchain, java, opengl ON THE FLY and many other features which other lack.
There are also many kernel that can fit four needs - you can pick the one from:
(output of: eix sources | grep sys | cut -f 2 -d “/” )
freebsd-sources
cell-sources
gentoo-sources
git-sources
hardened-sources
hppa-sources
mips-sources
mm-sources
openvz-sources
rsbac-sources
sh-sources
sparc-sources
tuxonice-sources
usermode-sources
vanilla-sources
vserver-sources
xbox-sources
xen-sources
I bet you didn’t even realize that there are so many kernel branches - but look closer at their description, you read about Andrew Morton sometimes, Microsoft Xbox too, etc.
All within the reach of your hand. This is Gentoo
November 24th, 2008 at 03:48
Wot, no mention of Sidux? See: http://sidux.com/
I was a Gentoo user for about 4-5 years, eventually just kinda got fed up with it for some reason and since I was getting new AMD 64-bit hardware, thought I’d look into the various binary options out there.
I wanted something pretty bleeding edge that would allow me to do a fair bit of tweaking, but without the time spent compiling of Gentoo.
Additionally, as somewhat of a treehugger, I hate the idea of tens of thousands of computers all over the world needlessly using up electricity all compiling the same bits of code… and for what? On modern hardware, Gentoo “speed advantage” is basically unnoticeable. (Sorry Gentoo folks - you’re still my second favourite distro!)
I had played with Ubuntu and Ubuntu Studio a bit, and wanted something similar but a bit more “edgy”, as well as prefering a KDE-centred distro.
I’d read some bad reports about Kubuntu (at the time) and somewhere in among those, I found a comment along the lines of “Sidux is what Kubuntu could have been.”
It’s the project of a former Kanotix developer - a LiveCD distro I’d used a few times in the past.
So I downloaded Sidux, tried it out on a spare partition, and it’s been awesome ever since. To be honest, it’s so easy to maintain that most medium-level Ubuntu users shouldn’t have much trouble with it. (Though Sidux is definitely NOT the same as Ubuntu!)
Occasionally something bleeding edge breaks, so you do need to know what you are doing a bit, but fixes and workarounds generally come out within hours, if not quicker. (I’ve been using it for nearly a year now, and it has only broken badly once on updating, and that was for less than half a day.)
For the relatively advanced user who wants an edgy KDE-centred binary distro that is actually very stable (I use my Sidux desktop to run my business every day and it’s great) and easy to maintain, I highly recommend it.
Also for fans of Debian who want to run (effectively) a stable version of Sid without the pain.
Also for Gentoo fans looking to switch to something a bit different, which is slightly less hassle than Gentoo, but more advanced than Ubuntu.
For me, it’s Sidux all the way: http://sidux.com/
November 24th, 2008 at 04:06
Nice to see someone consider the “harder” distros. As it happens, I just added Arch x86_64 to my main box, which runs Slackware as the main OS. I wanted to try the new 64-bit flash. So far so good.
Personally, I think Slackware gets the real bum rap for being hard (and advanced is a misnomer for Slackware. It’s appeal is that it is not advanced. But I know what you were getting at). The only part that should cause a newbie angst is partitioning the hard drive. Otherwise, it has very sane defaults. There are several great install pages around, and a half hour of search-and-print should stand you in good stead. I went from OS X to Slackware 8.1 with only one hiccup. I had a laptop nearby and a quick search later I was up and running. That would not happen now with the 2.6 kernel, hal, udev, etc.
Arch is kind of the reverse of Slackware. Arch is a pain to install, but a breeze to maintain. And speaking of that, I think this is the first review of Arch I’ve ever seen that didn’t mention pacman. For me, that’s the only thing Arch has over Slackware (except an official 64-bit port, of course). On Slackware I use slackpkg, slapt-get and even sbopkg (compiling from source), and I’ve used all the major package managers — even from the BSDs — but pacman is my favorite.
I ran Gentoo on a couple of machines at different times. It’s very nice to have “compiled for your system” software, but in the end I didn’t see it as being worth all that compiling compared to Slackware or Arch. I get plenty of speed from Slackware and Arch. I spend most of my time in Fluxbox, and the heaviest programs I use are Firefox and GIMP.
Anyway, here’s hoping you sold somebody on using one of the more advanced distros.
November 24th, 2008 at 07:58
why there’s no Fedora？
November 24th, 2008 at 09:01
Gentoo is what you make it to be. No other distro gives you enough power over what gets installed and what gets installed as depedencies.
The USE Flags are powerful. The Documentation is great. The boot speed is the best I’ve ever seen.
Compilation is a drag but you get over it once you’
ve got the System tuned and working.
There’s only so many packages that’ll get updated, and using CCache speeds up what exists (at the cost of disk space).
November 24th, 2008 at 11:03
Great list, good to see Slackware mentioned but I wouldn’t call it advanced, but true it isn’t as user friendly as say Ubuntu.
Thanks, Gary
November 24th, 2008 at 11:50
i like gentoo and arch. arch, however has two major annoyances i’m starting to hate more and more with each passing day -
one : documentation is stripped off most packages. if you expect package to have a sample configuration files in /usr/share/doc - you might be surprised. most packages don’t come with these in arch linux.
that is quite annoying. most people don’t need this, but when you install something for the first time, you might appreciate the docs or sample config files.
two: some toolchain components are outdated, especially automake, which is still at 1.1, unofficial user repository (aur) provides you with 1.5 only. so i couldn’t build ncmpc off svn on arch because it needed at least 1.60 automake :/
what is great about gentoo is that you can use its ebuild collection (portage) to cross-compile a different system with little hassle. you can also run it on an other subset of C libraries (e.g. uclibc) and (ab)use its software management tools to build various linux installations, embedded and whatever else you might want.
also, installing software straight from git/svn/mercurial/cvs/etc is easy and pretty much seamless (you can do this straight from package manager). that is one of the strengths of gentoo most people don’t notice, but people interested in bleeding-edge or development might appreciate.
gentoo also offers a very convenient mechanism to keep multiple gcc/binutils/other software versions in your system and switch between them.
it also applies to switching between opengl libraries easily - i can’t think of any other distro that can help you switch between mesa/ati/nvidia gl libraries that easily.
as far as initsystem is concerned - arch is simple - you specify order of services in /etc/rc.conf.
on gentoo services have dependencies to determine their order or prerequisites, but you can quite easily manage them with rc-update.
November 24th, 2008 at 15:38
You forgot the mother of all advanced linux distros.
LFS (linux from scratch).
November 24th, 2008 at 16:00
Linux is advanced. Advanced all by its lonesome. Implementations of Linux in the form of distributions can only be advanced if they are designed such that any moron with a pulse can install and run it. If a thing cannot be simple, explain a thing simply, offer itself up simply enough to be understood; then it doesn’t understand itself or the subject enough. Windows trips all over itself being a mess. Epic fails. Hell, don’t ask it to deliver drinks unless you want your customers wet.
Debian escapes mention here and I’m confused - you can make it into anything you like. Simply. That’s advanced by design and self-grokulation. It’s not making a spectacular catch, it’s just being routine. Catching the ball. The mentioned distributions in this article are all fine, indeed. Advanced? No more so than Linux is in general.
November 24th, 2008 at 17:58
I’m a Gentoo user myself. I came to Gentoo after having fiddled with Suse 9.1 so much and having hand-compiled newer programs and libraries to such an extent that it was no longer compatible to Suse 9.1 packages.
When Gentoo breaks I know I can handle it. I easily got rid of the graphical login (which is a killer when it doesn’t work) and know I get a working, stable system even if I manage to fiddle my GUI to death. I see what gets pulled in as a dependency when I compile something, so I get to see how things are connected. Gentoo has taught me a lot about Linux.
My kernel is very streamlined: binary distros give you jack-of-all-trade kernels, I compile mine to what I need. I have no Firewire gadgets, so I don’t compile Firewire support into the kernel. Again, hand-configuring my kernel helps me to understand things.
I also run Ubuntu on a notebook of mine, but with Gentoo I feel in control of the situation at all times - not so with Ubuntu. I hear 8.10 doesn’t use xorg.conf anymore, but rather configures itself automatically each time the GUI starts; so what do you do if that doesn’t work? I’m sure there’s a workaround, but as I already know how to deal with xorg.conf, why would I want to bother?
And the primary reason I like Gentoo is: no distro upgrades. The drawback of binary distribution is that it has to be based on a static set of capabilities (kernel, libraries, tools), which is why, for instance, you’ll never get an official Firefox 3 on Ubuntu 7.10: it doesn’t meet the requirements for FF3, but you cannot just upgrade those because that would break compatibility with other binary packages for 7.10.
Gentoo grows in an organic fashion, it doesn’t need a distro replacement every six months in order to stay current. My Gentoo was set up in January 2006 with what, kernel 2.6.12 or so, and today I’m running 2.6.25, Open Office 3 and FF 3 with it. Show me any binary distro from 2006 which can do that without upgrading to a newer distro version.
November 24th, 2008 at 18:08
Ha! Bill Goldberg beat me to LFS!
I’ve never learned more about the inner works of Linux than during the process of building my very own linux server.
Also, there’s DIY Linux, a sort of ‘advanced LFS’ with a strong focus on scripting your build and package management.
The DIY Linux site recommends building your own LFS first, though.
November 24th, 2008 at 18:34
+1 for Arch
November 24th, 2008 at 18:38
I fail to see the point, though, of advanced distro’s. Isn’t the point of an OS to strive for great features with a simple interface? Why would anyone want to browse the web, for instance, in a command line form? I understand there is the whole “See what I can do!” factor, but it doesn’t make much sense to work in an environment that way…
November 24th, 2008 at 18:40
Backtrack from remote exploit can be a good option. Even though it has security testing as primary objective I have found it to be a very pleasant experience.
November 24th, 2008 at 18:42
One of the commenters already wrote about the installation guide and learning a lot about Linux.
The reason I still use Linux for some machines and that I know how to use is, is due to Gentoo.
Gentoo teaches its users how to use the command line by forcing them to use it at the installation and at the same time providing them with a manual that is precisely showing what to type and why.
Of course a bit of hardware knowledge is very helpful, but not absolutely necessary.
It shows where to find configuration files, how to play with compile flags etc.
So, Gentoo can be both a distribution for beginners and very advanced users with very specific wishes.
November 24th, 2008 at 18:57
Have you guys tried Bauer-Puntu? http://is.gd/8O9j
November 24th, 2008 at 19:00
three is all you could come up with?
these are tough distros. In my limited experience, i found slackware (of the three listed here) to be the easiest to install to a full working desktop.
November 24th, 2008 at 19:23
[...] Articulo completo en: Internetlin [...]
November 24th, 2008 at 19:24
Might try some of those linux distros you recommend, but I love my CentOs. It’s stable, and it’s been helping my business grow for the last five years. Before that I was a fan of redhat linux for obvious reasons.
November 24th, 2008 at 19:25
Being fairly n00 to Linux, one thing I would like to see more in Linux reviews are what the underlying system is (Ubuntu is built off Debian, Mandriva off of Mandrake).
I’ve been a fan of Kubuntu, but the recent upgrade to 8.10 from 8.04 demolished my xorg.conf and I’m still trying to figure out how to get it to work. This is a problem related to nvidia as well.
November 24th, 2008 at 19:29
why gentoo: use flags.
they offer a lot of flexibility i miss with binaries.
for example i maybe despise perl, or maybe dislike python or some other decision and i know that with setting the right use flags i can avoid some archaic unix leftovers.
its just a pragmatic linux overall and you can make it suit your needs easier.
Also the speed doesnt hurt;) being all compiled means you can use the most advanced compiling/linking options even if it means breaking legacy binary stuff. (i dont mean -05, but passing parameters in registers, prelinking, … ). Most of linux problems are architectural/legacy anyway.
November 24th, 2008 at 19:44
Great List .. Liked the content as well as comment are also quite informative. Thanks for such a nice article. Dying to try Gentoo once I get another box to try it. Though have been thinking about LFS also for some time.
November 24th, 2008 at 19:45
This article is just crap. I think you were writing an article about the best and not so popular linux distro. Where are the others new distros like gOS or Mint ? Why some people who don’t have any knowledge and creativity write articles about things they don’t know like this one…??
Please do not waste space in the web and my time, don’t write articles like this any more…
November 24th, 2008 at 19:56
Sidux is also a rolling release distro, with periodic snapshots released as live CDs (plus installer on the live CD).
Sure, you do dist-upgrade (through the excellent SMXI script) every week or so, but the dist-upgrades are small, stable, and much more akin to Gentoo’s rolling upgrade than to Debian’s fixed release schedule.
You get Debian Sid (unstable branch), but without the headaches, and without having to ever reinstall from scratch again. You get the edgyness and rolling update like Gentoo, without having to compile stuff (OK, you don’t get to strip out features you don’t want, but I rarely did that anyway).
Sidux also contributes back into Debian, and is 100% compatible with Debian Sid.
I love everything that Gentoo taught me about Linux (I think it would be hard to beat Gentoo on that front, really), but I’d really, really encourage people to give Sidux a look - it’s an awesome distro, and a pretty decent live CD too.
Since switching from Gentoo to Sidux, I’ve not looked back once - and I’ve looked forwards plenty of times!
November 24th, 2008 at 20:00
To xulsolar:
Waste space on the web? Surely Greg can do what he likes on his own web space!
Waste your time? Just exercise your freedom of choice and go read something else!
Personally, I don’t think the article is that great, but the discussion following it is pretty good. If you don’t like it, nobody is forcing you to sit there reading it… are they!?!?
(If they are, chances are you’ve been taken hostage and should try to email the cops rather than posting on somebody’s blog!)
November 24th, 2008 at 20:17
Been a big fan of Gentoo for awhile now, never even heard of Arch Linux might have to give that a try.
November 24th, 2008 at 20:41
I have used Gentoo now for at least two years and I love it. Once you get over the “complexity” you will notice that you can treat Gentoo like a mechanic treats a car engine… if there is new part or a part goes bad you can “pop the hood” and replace that single part. Compare this to Windows or even some binary based Linux distros… When a piece of the OS goes bad you only have one option usually - a complete restore from backup. If you don’t have a backup you’ve got to do a fresh install! Since you can track your dependencies very easily with portage and tools like equery, it makes trouble shooting problems with applications or the OS much easier. So yes, the initial install with Gentoo is hard, but it gives a lot more payoffs back to the user - The amount of control over the base system, customization and optimization are key ingredients to taking your system to the next level. Gentoo has a ton of documentation to get you going quickly and the people at the forums.gentoo.org are generally very friendly and knowledgeable. I’ve thought about other source based distros or even LFS but the documentation and support is just not there like it is for Gentoo. My suggestion to anybody who wants to get started in the easiest manner is to simply diagram out all of your hardware. Find out what drivers correspond to them in the kernel. Once you know this your install will be straight forward since the hardest part of the install has been prepared for.
November 24th, 2008 at 20:45
Arch++
great thing is that’s its advanced yet simple. Core configuration in 1 file (rc.conf), installation depends on a certain linux knowledge but the wiki will hold your hand if you need it. Most software comes how without distribution branding and the core installation has naff all on it.
I think the lack of software on a basic install teaches you a lot as it forces you to choose a desktop environment and to research and explore alternatives to just gnome/kde (xfce ftw btw!). With pacman at the helm it makes for a simple installation and how it’s all compiled for either x86/x86_64 making it unnoticeably slower than gentoo. Pacman is primarily a cli tool, though graphical utlities are available further helping people who don’t want to get their hands dirty, it’s ease of use for updating a whole system with 1 command makes this extremely powerful.
Rolling release means I haven’t reinstalled in >2years
Arch linux is what you make of it.
November 24th, 2008 at 20:52
Gentoo is the worst Linux distro unless you are already an expert. Please for the love of God do not use this unless you are already a guru with Red Hat and Ubuntu.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:15
I like Ubuntu. It just works in most installs. When a linux disto “just works” and a windows person can just install and watch youtube, edit office documents (that others can actually open after), and use email (evolution or thunderbird, etc) then linux will really have arrived. I think Ubuntu is closest to that. If it “just works” first off, then people will spend $ and time to make it better.
The hacker in me likes Gentoo and LFS. But for the most part I got too much going for me to fiddle with them. Need my linux to work and update on the hurry-up.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:28
Some of you seem to be missing the point entirely. This article was about advanced distros requiring advanced skill levels. Not everyone wants to run the same distro on the same hardware in the configuration of a desktop OS. Some of us have custom needs and as such require the flexibility of these type distros. I maintain 65 fat clients all running Slackware. We rolled our own custom installation medium and dd it on every time we send out a new box. There is no cute GUI installer. This OS was built specifically for our hardware w/ custom kernel, drivers and applications and as such wouldn’t work anywhere else.
I just installed Arch on to a spare partition from within Debian yesterday for the first time.
Pacman - w00t!
Grade A docs! Every step was documented and current!
Fast fast fast booting! and that’s about all the time I’ve had to tinker with it. This is going to be fun.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:29
One of the lesser noted advantages of Gentoo is that the system is constantly in a state where the entire thing can be compiled from scratch. Gentoo is a massive proving ground and template that empiric shows that free software can be entirely built by the users rather than controlled by somebody else.
That’s why I’ve stuck with it for so many years. I know that the snapshots I have will build and what I have to do to make it work on my system. If all of those people building binaries disappeared tomorrow, my system will work and I can modify it without their consideration.
November 24th, 2008 at 21:42
I use Gentoo for one reason above all, itś always updated.
For other distributions you have to make at some point a distribution update. The safe way is to clean and make a fresh install.
With Gentoo i don’t need it.
The second most strong reason is the stability. I only have crashes in software that i choose to install against recommendations (for testing for instance)
November 24th, 2008 at 22:15
Archlinux is always up-to-date as well. It’s called “rolling release”. You install once, and that’s it. Just issue the system update command (pacman -Syu). You’re system is always up-to-date!
November 24th, 2008 at 22:56
I couldn’t use Ubuntu on my motherboard which sported a JMicron controller. The kernel didn’t have support for it yet, and wouldn’t for another 6 months- which was when the next version of Ubuntu would be released. The U-forums pointed me to dogdy instructions to load the upcoming version’s kernel- which I tried. Which was a pain in the arse to acquire. Which didn’t work. Which ticked me off.
Loaded Gentoo. Same initial problem. The G-forums also had instructions for dealing with JMicron. But these instructions worked, so within an hour or two I had a working DVD drive. Heck, I could have downloaded a customized boot disc with JMicron support even. It wasn’t too long after that when JMicron support was added in natively.
My point is that with most distros, you’re waiting for one person/group to release a new major version. It’s honest, in that anybody can look under the hood, at the source. Gentoo is updated pretty much daily. You can choose whatever parts you want, with whatever options you want. You know it’s built ground-up, from basic blocks, no McDonaldization happening.
Gentoo is one of the few distros that puts you closest to the feeling of being “open source”, a distro sans customization or control. You build it yourself, knowing there are no mystery binaries involved. That’s as far diametric from Microsoft as you can get, and boy does the freedom feel good.
You can get some packages for Gentoo in binary form. Open Office, Firefox for example. Both take a long time to compile from source.
November 24th, 2008 at 23:43
Who the heck is telling everybody that Slackware is command-line only? So it drops you into runlevel 3 on first boot… that’s a feature! If X doesn’t work, you’re not stuck with arcane boot options trying to fix it.
I run Slamd64 (a 64-bit multi-lib port of Slack) with KDE 4 on my Dell. I run Slackware -current (the “bleeding edge”) with xfce on my Averatec. Both are responsive, stable, and full-featured.
Thanks, Gregor, for reminding everyone that Slackware is alive and well.
November 25th, 2008 at 00:35
As far as Arch goes, install yaourt and you’ll have a nice frontend for pacman, which also incorporates the AUR to make everything very easy, central and ’seamless’!
November 25th, 2008 at 01:12
What are the advantages of Gentoo?
I wrote a blog post about that a while ago, in which I summarize a number of arguments from different users:
http://ben.liveforge.org/why-gentoo
November 25th, 2008 at 02:04
I personally use Gentoo for the last two years and is now my distro of choice for desktop, server or whatever use.
I used RedHat then fedora (also tried Suse and ubuntu)
My reasons for using Gentoo is: Even though it took sometime to compile the packages when you install them you can rest assured that they will run fast and reliable because it configures the compiler to suite my machines’ configuration.
Plus gentoo was the first distro that I could easily install all the software I wanted to use.
You do not need to know how to compile all you do is eg: emerge k9copy and it will be compiled and installed automatically with dependencies if needed.
Other reason is I grow my system as I need to and want to. There is no unwanted software on my computer everything on my pc is there because I choose to have the there.
Other great thing about Gentoo is it will warn you if a specific application might have security issues and also what they are and the you can choose to live with the issues or without the application.
Another cool thing about Gentoo is the ease of updating software, its really easy!
Gentoo really made a difference for the better in my Linux experience.
Well, I suppose, its all about taste and for me Gentoo is just sweet and the others left me a bit of a sour taste in my mouth every time the distro releases a new version and I have to battle to get the new versions working and have things just the way the were with Gentoo I can upgrade any program I want anytime to the lates version and I know everything else will still function as normal.
Cheers, happy computing!
Adolf
November 25th, 2008 at 02:25
I just don’t get what are you talking about? for me, compilation time is usually unnoticeable.
I maintain dozens of Gentoo instalations (at peak: 60) and I see no reason for whining about loose of time. Here is why:
1. daily there are only several updates. They take one minute to download and compile.
2. I got shared portage and use one machine for compilation, rest is updated through binary installs.
3. I got usually very decent machines.
4. number of packages is minimal (typically ~300 for mail server, compare it to RHEL, CentOS, Debian, not Slack).
5. Don’t you take a coffee once a day?
November 25th, 2008 at 03:35
ADVANCED??
Ubuntu, SuSE and RedHat and possibly Debian (just scrapes into the list) are the _advanced_ distributions. Not only do you get the full benefit of easy install, polished GUI, additional kernel drivers/patches, _advanced_ package management and reliability/support when it comes to server applications. Oh wait, I can also compile packages from source (like bleeding edge or some niche app not in the repo), shells of your choice for command line need as well as both console and X based config utilities.
THESE distributions are truly _advanced_, because you don’t have to be an advanced user, yet you still get all the powerful tools you want if you are.
These other distros you speak of claim ‘advanced’ or ’simple’ (for Slak) as a (jealous) way to hide that they just cannot compete with the really advanced Linux distros.
That will be all.
I’ve used slackware since the 90’s (2 weeks to download at 2400baud!), flirted with RedHat, even Mandrake before it changed to Mandrivel, oh wait, back to Slackware because of simple package management and stepped up to Ubuntu because I like shiny things too. Servers and desktop systems.
November 25th, 2008 at 05:15
Archlinux <3 , “Advanced” is not the right word. It is how the system is designed, ( using the same softwares which you find in all other distros), glued together, so that it makes your computing experience enjoyable.
November 25th, 2008 at 06:34
Has anyone checked out Caos NSA (http://www.caoslinux.org). They just released today but they have been doing distros for apparently quite some time (including Centos).
I tested it, and it seems to fit its niche. Lightweight and performance centric.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:09
These are not advanced! distros. They are lure for masochists
which cost you much more time for (nearly) nothing. You better have strong reasons to use them. You have cli at your fingertips also with Ubuntu, Mandriva, Suse etc.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:43
Been a big fan of Gentoo for awhile now, never even heard of Arch Linux might have to give that a try.
November 25th, 2008 at 12:45
Great List .. Liked the content as well as comment are also quite informative. Thanks for such a nice article. Dying to try Gentoo once I get another box to try it. Though have been thinking about LFS also for some time.
November 25th, 2008 at 13:21
[...] Advanced Linux Distributions You Should Try [...]
November 25th, 2008 at 14:24
In response to “Jupiter” above… yes, I agree that these distros (in my experience) are a lure for masochists! Perhaps this article should be called “Distros for advanced **USERS** who want to tweak”, rather than “advanced distros”.
Despite my 4+ year love affair with Gentoo, what made me leave was that despite having a very functional system that I was happy with, I’d still end up every so often having to spend half a day or more fixing something which broke without warning from sometimes seemingly small updates. Sure, it taught me a lot, and there was ALWAYS a way to fix things, as well as great forums to find help in.
But ultimately, I don’t want to spend loads of time having to fix stuff which breaks unexpectedly on me - I just want to set something up and have it keep working.
Gentoo used to work amazingly, but around the time I left (a year ago), I was seeing more and more threads in the forums along the lines of “such-and-such breaks things really badly” because it seemed the testing procedures before packages got moved into the stable portage tree were just not getting the job done a lot of the time. Stuff that shouldn’t even have been in the unstable ~x86 tree was making it through to stable x86, and broke my system badly on several occasions. (I can probably find the specific examples, if folks don’t believe me.)
Now, I promise this is the last time I’m going to mention Sidux here, but once again, I really urge folks to give it a try!
It’s remarkably stable, it’s just as bleeding edge as Gentoo, it has a rolling release so no reinstall is required ever, it’s not far off being as easy as Ubuntu in most areas, and when something occasionally breaks, you can roll back to a previous version in a matter of seconds, rather than having to wait while things compile.
You get plenty of edgyness, and it also just WORKS.
I am yet to find a bad point about it.
So it’s binary, and you can’t stop certain things being pulled in? Hard drive space is cheap and processors are fast these days, so who cares!?!?
My real-world spare time is worth more to me than the few milliseconds Gentoo might (possibly) save me because I can tweak it.
Not least because in order to save those few milliseconds, I’d probably be spending hours tweaking my USE flags and waiting while stuff compiles.
Unless you have a very specific need to tweak the hell out of stuff (embedded systems for example) or your hobby is fixing borked Linux boxes, then I really can’t see many reasons for bothering with Gentoo these days. It’s not what it used to be, and it doesn’t particularly have the advantage of edgyness any more either. It’s a distro for diehard tweakers.
Moderately advanced users who want to spend more time actually getting things done should try Sidux over Gentoo any day of the week.
November 25th, 2008 at 16:00
Caos Linux NSA 1 just released today. It’s fast, light-weight and a high performance community distribution. It’s focussed towards HPC, servers and appliances but works nice for me on a laptop.
Definitely worth a try.
November 25th, 2008 at 16:19
They’re all the same at the core. GNU/LINUX and BASH.
BASH is the place to start, move on to compiling and then hopefully a little code. I’m not sure that compiling wastes electricity as one poster put it, since it’s a process one needs to learn, even though it might be the same architecture, the same source code and the same distro. I want my kid to learn science in the lab, like I did and I don’t think, it’s a big drain on the water supply to put some in a test tube thousands of times over. As is trees to make text books.
True, Debian does some things different, like compiling the kernel and making it into a package, but it’s a good system. machiner is correct, Debian can be anything you want.
So try a menu driven interface, try the command line as an interface, use lynx, use wget, add a drive at the cli, move your SWAP partition, pipe some commands, create a script, most of all… HAVE FUN!
I think I will have to try sidux!
November 25th, 2008 at 17:27
good post
November 25th, 2008 at 17:46
[...] are as advanced as you want them to be. Well, of course Linux is all about choice…Check it:http://www.internetling.com/2008/11/23/advanced-linux-distributions-you-should-try/ Posted by Makin at [...]
November 25th, 2008 at 20:26
Dave S: “Additionally, as somewhat of a treehugger, I hate the idea of tens of thousands of computers all over the world needlessly using up electricity all compiling the same bits of code… and for what? On modern hardware, Gentoo “speed advantage” is basically unnoticeable. (Sorry Gentoo folks - you’re still my second favourite distro!)”
Did you ever think that the “unnoticeable” speed advantage you refer to is actually a result of your hardware being used more efficiently requiring less power? While Gentoo might use more resources during the installation process, I would bet that it makes up for it and beyond by using less resources in the long-run due to it’s increased efficiency. In other words, Gentoo is likely more “green” than any other OS you could run because it is compiled specifically for your hardware using only the resources it needs.
As an aside, this highlights the problem with environmentalists in general in my opinion. Many times they act on anecdotal, flawed, or even no evidence at all which results in even more damage to the environment than if they would have never acted at all.
November 25th, 2008 at 21:01
Odd that nobody mentioned Puppy Linux.
It’s a very special installable Live-CD distro, with amazing performance and ease of use; despite its very small size (less than 100 MB) it offers a huge selection of excellent applications, it is up and running first-time in less than two minutes, and runs surprisingly fast even on not-so-new boxes. It can even run without a Hard Disk and can boot from practically anything - USB keys, memory cards etc.
The package-managing system is quite astounding, too: with just one mouse click the required program is automatically downloaded and installed; the dependencies are checked and, if required, further downloaded and installed.
Puppy Linux has been made from scratch by Barry Kauler, an Australian software developer, and was first released in June 2003. Since then it has been updated regularly, also with the help of a developer team that has gradually formed; and the original scope - a no-brainer operating system, simple yet powerful, complete and secure - has been taken to an almost unbelievable level.
On the PC I’m using at this moment (5-yrs old Athlon XP 1800) it boots in 25 seconds and shuts down in 8.
I’ve been using Puppy Linux for three years now, and IMHO it beats any other Linux distro I tried (over 20), as well as any other operating system (over 12 tested, counting Win and Linux only once).
Very definitely worth a try! http://www.puppylinux.com
November 25th, 2008 at 21:21
@ Anonymous:
I am talking about the power and CPU cycles required to compile a large application, like KDE for example.
If KDE is being compiled by 10,000 Gentoo users (I have no idea how many Gentoo users there are running KDE), and is being recompiled by those same users every time a new point release of KDE comes out, then that’s quite a lot of power being used. (What with compiling being a pretty heavy CPU load too.)
Personally, I don’t need a custom KDE - or anything else really for that matter. Standard binaries work just fine for me.
So there is no need for my computer to be on and compiling everything when I can just run some binaries that somebody else has compiled and work perfectly fine for me. It’s a personal choice.
But if we’re talking anecdotal evidence, I don’t for a second buy your idea that Gentoo is likely more “green” than any other OS. (Care to supply some data to back up your anecdote? If not, then it’s no more or less anecdotal than my point of view.)
Thousands of people compiling it specifically for their own boxes (most of them needlessly, running with pretty standard configurations for most applications) will use up way, way more power than thousands of computers skipping over sections of centrally compiled binary that is not applicable to them.
Gentoo is undoubtedly a little bit faster than a standard binary (maybe a couple of percent tops?), but really, even as an ex-Gentoo fanboi myself, I know it’s delusional to suggest anything more than that. It’s a little bit faster, but not much, and you’d be hard pushed to notice it.
Think globally, act locally - it’s all you can do as an individual.
I made this personal decision as somebody with both a degree in computer science, and quite a few years experience in critically evaluating ways of lower impact living.
Still, I don’t think this is a particularly strong argument either way for choosing or not choosing Gentoo. But it was a secondary factor in my decision to stop using Gentoo, alongside the deteriorating quality control of “stable” tree releases, and me switching to 64-bit and just wanting to try something else.
Environmentalists are generally the people taking a considered, system-wide view, and acting on the best scientific data currently available to them.
It is anti-environmentalists who are the ones only too happy to stick their heads in the sand and do nothing, based on anecdotal, flawed, and even utterly discredited “evidence” - or even worse, the rhetoric of unscientific celebrity “sceptics”.
I think for myself and follow nobody in particular, and in this instance, I believe I have made a relatively educated, slightly greener choice.
Computer scientists are hardly renowned for their green credentials - always wanting faster, bigger, more more more. But I am not one of those type of people, so my needs (desires?) are probably just different to yours. Each to their own, as far as possible.
Overall, I guess this is an argument for somewhere else, eh? (I don’t want to make this thread all about environmental politics!)
Oh, and +1 for Puppy Linux! I’ve installed it on a couple of old laptops now, and it’s awesome - though I wouldn’t necessarily say it was an “advanced” distro, more like a great way to make use of old hardware. Very functional tiny modular distro - great stuff!
November 25th, 2008 at 22:10
Dave S: “But if we’re talking anecdotal evidence . . . (Care to supply some data to back up your anecdote? If not, then it’s no more or less anecdotal than my point of view.)”
I agree that my evidence is anecdotal as well, but I’m not changing my lifestyle and/or OS choice based on this anecdotal evidence either. And, that was my point.
Dave S: “Thousands of people compiling it specifically for their own boxes”
While this may be true for the single-user, administrators have more efficient options. Another commenter mentioned that one could compile Gentoo sources on a central server and then distribute the resulting binary to other Gentoo systems with the same hardware. I just wanted to point out that many Gentoo systems running right now don’t even need to compile their own sources — the best of both worlds.
Dave S: “Gentoo is undoubtedly a little bit faster than a standard binary (maybe a couple of percent tops?)”
You have your “evidence” right there, then. If Gentoo runs “a couple of percent faster” than other binary-based distributions, by the same token Gentoo uses less power. Unless you believe that compiling a program under Gentoo uses more power than will ever be used in running said program, Gentoo obviously uses less power overall making it more “green” than its binary-based counterparts.
November 25th, 2008 at 22:35
@ Anonymous:
In my experience, the speed difference of Gentoo is basically unnoticeable. So yes, I do believe that thousands of users compiling thousands of pieces of software thousands of times uses up considerably more power overall than if those same users ran “slower” binaries.
It is a fact that now I don’t run Gentoo, I don’t have to leave my computer on as much as I used to. Therefore, this is an appropriate environmental (and financial) benefit for my circumstances.
Even when I was a major Gentoo fanboi, I was always careful about how much faster I claimed my system was than other distros, because I knew that in reality there was hardly anything in it. Unless you are running on an old machine or as a server, the performance gains of using Gentoo are negligable, IMHO.
You will spend a lot of time tweaking things, for minimal actual performance benefit to yourself. If you enjoy spending your life doing that kind of thing, then fine. I used to, but now I don’t. I’d rather turn off the computer and do something else.
Anyway, at the end of the day, this all boils down to personal preference (as with all things Linux!), so let’s leave it at that, shall we?
November 26th, 2008 at 00:50
Windows 7 all the way baby!!
November 26th, 2008 at 10:59
Dave S said:
“…Oh, and +1 for Puppy Linux! I’ve installed it on a couple of old laptops now, and it’s awesome - though I wouldn’t necessarily say it was an “advanced” distro, more like a great way to make use of old hardware. Very functional tiny modular distro - great stuff!”
I’m glad you share my point, at least in part; for the rest, well, it depends on what we consider to be “advancements”…
In 2004, SpaceShip One clearly showed that there are better ways than NASA’s brute-force approach to get into space, and in my view that was a real advancement, although no spectacular technical breakthrough was employed: just plain common sense.
Puppy Linux takes the Open Source efforts to a higher overall useability level, mainly just with that: an incredible amount of plain common sense - personally I see no better ingredient for real advancements, in every facet of life. Do you? ;°)
November 26th, 2008 at 11:57
Hi there, it’s really good to see a well written blog that’s insightful as well as entertaining. cheers!
November 26th, 2008 at 11:59
why there’s no Fedora？
November 26th, 2008 at 15:21
I use Arch on my desktop and gentoo on my home server and i’ll have to say besides the obvious advantages of gentoo (USE flag system, portage etc) the one thing i love most about it, is that it’s just so perfectly designed (architecture-wise). With gentoo it’s always the easiest way, no hassle, no nothing.
November 26th, 2008 at 23:34
I find Slackware dead simple to install, for use as a desktop system at least. Easier than any Debian-based distro I’ve tried.
For reasons people like Gentoo, see
, which also links to other blogs about it (including mine).
November 26th, 2008 at 23:35
Sorry, my link in that last comment didn’t work out. Should be
http://ben.liveforge.org/why-gentoo
November 28th, 2008 at 12:31
[...] que ya solo por el mero hecho de instalarse pueden provocar algún que otro sudor frío previo. En Internetling han realizado una lista de tres de esas distribuciones, y además es bueno leerse los comentarios [...]
November 28th, 2008 at 22:00
For me the biggest plus of Gentoo is configurability. I have it on a 10 year old laptop (1.5GHz Athlon mobile + 512MB) where it runs quite nicely. I got a very visible performance boost by building for *my* hardware. Sure the binaries won’t run on everyone’s system, but on mine they run *fast*.
Turning off features I know I will not use is the biggie. Building Firefox without libpango made it so much more responsive.
I have a new laptop (2 core duos @2.6 + 4GB) that’s running Kubuntu. Increasing or decreasing the font size in Firefox is visibly faster on the older, Gentoo lappy.
November 29th, 2008 at 03:39
I really liked your blog. Very useful information, I read it detail, also book-marked it and will be back in the future to read some more of your interesting posts ! keep up the good work.
December 2nd, 2008 at 04:33
I wonder if any of these “advanced” distro could be the main stream,it’s too hard to use for the beginner and non-geek users,being advaned means that these distros is just the computer-geek’s toy,right?
December 3rd, 2008 at 02:31
If you want to learn Linux and how your computer realy works, try Gentoo! It’s the most wonderfull distro ever and the community is even better than Ubuntu’s. But you have to be patient and like it to solve problems. If you want to go easy, Gentoo is not for you.
December 5th, 2008 at 09:19
why there’s no Fedora？?
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:48
If you want to learn Linux and how your computer realy works, try Gentoo! It’s the most wonderfull distro ever and the community is even better than Ubuntu’s. But you have to be patient and like it to solve problems. If you want to go easy, Gentoo is not for you..
December 24th, 2008 at 11:35
I really liked your blog. Very useful information, I read it detail, also book-marked it and will be back in the future to read some more of your interesting posts ! keep up the good work..
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:28
I haven’t had chance to try any of the distribution yet. But I love Ubuntu, PuppyLinux and Slax.
Thanks
Patrick
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:04
[...] Advanced Linux Distributions You Should Try [...]
January 4th, 2009 at 02:35
hello it is test. WinRAR provides the full RAR and ZIP file support, can decompress CAB, GZIP, ACE and other archive formats.
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