Comments on: Windows 7 buyers in Europe will have to choose a browser. Fair? http://www.internetling.com/2009/07/25/windows-7-buyers-in-europe-will-have-to-choose-a-browser-fair/ Linux, opensource and me Sat, 04 Sep 2010 18:23:28 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Brad Koch http://www.internetling.com/2009/07/25/windows-7-buyers-in-europe-will-have-to-choose-a-browser-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-6344 Brad Koch Tue, 01 Sep 2009 03:32:10 +0000 http://www.internetling.com/?p=367#comment-6344 EVERY browser? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_browsers :) EVERY browser?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_browsers
:)

]]> By: Web Host Directory http://www.internetling.com/2009/07/25/windows-7-buyers-in-europe-will-have-to-choose-a-browser-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-6342 Web Host Directory Tue, 01 Sep 2009 03:29:28 +0000 http://www.internetling.com/?p=367#comment-6342 I think if they are going to show options, they need to show EVERY option. As stated above, it would not be fair to leave some or one out. Anyway, Mozilla FTW. I think if they are going to show options, they need to show EVERY option. As stated above, it would not be fair to leave some or one out. Anyway, Mozilla FTW.

]]> By: Brad Koch http://www.internetling.com/2009/07/25/windows-7-buyers-in-europe-will-have-to-choose-a-browser-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-6216 Brad Koch Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:04:48 +0000 http://www.internetling.com/?p=367#comment-6216 @Michael Howell Well, you have to remember we're dealing with government here. And government sucks and sticks its regulatory power anywhere it wants. You're right, most popular (OS X and Windows) operating systems come bundled with a proprietary browser (several Linux distros tend to come with at least 2 in my experience, although I assume this isn't as common since they're trying to phase out Konqueror). Bundling may have won MS the browser wars, but it's gotten to be far less of an advantage since competition has returned to the browser market and people are becoming more aware of their options. Thus Microsoft may have a very good argument should it come to that. But remember, this is business/politics. Things get ugly way before they get to the courts, and so Microsoft is playing it safe to avoid further accusations of monopolistic tactics and all the negative press that will come with it. I'm just saying that in the past, Microsoft has unfairly wielded their market power to push their products. That's monopolistic. I'm not saying the EU is right now. This is just what you end up with when you try to enforce utilitarian laws. @Michael Howell
Well, you have to remember we’re dealing with government here. And government sucks and sticks its regulatory power anywhere it wants. You’re right, most popular (OS X and Windows) operating systems come bundled with a proprietary browser (several Linux distros tend to come with at least 2 in my experience, although I assume this isn’t as common since they’re trying to phase out Konqueror). Bundling may have won MS the browser wars, but it’s gotten to be far less of an advantage since competition has returned to the browser market and people are becoming more aware of their options. Thus Microsoft may have a very good argument should it come to that.

But remember, this is business/politics. Things get ugly way before they get to the courts, and so Microsoft is playing it safe to avoid further accusations of monopolistic tactics and all the negative press that will come with it.

I’m just saying that in the past, Microsoft has unfairly wielded their market power to push their products. That’s monopolistic. I’m not saying the EU is right now. This is just what you end up with when you try to enforce utilitarian laws.

]]> By: Michael "I'm not" Howell http://www.internetling.com/2009/07/25/windows-7-buyers-in-europe-will-have-to-choose-a-browser-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-6214 Michael "I'm not" Howell Wed, 29 Jul 2009 02:19:59 +0000 http://www.internetling.com/?p=367#comment-6214 @Brad Koch: "Also, it’s not the FOSS world that’s raising the issue here, although I assume they’re all happy to hear about it. It’s the EU’s regulating bodies who are responsible for preventing monopolies from forming who would be leading the crusade." I'm not happy about it. It seems very hypocritical to accuse MS of being monopolistic for bundling a browser while Every other important OS also bundles a browser. @Brad Koch: “Also, it’s not the FOSS world that’s raising the issue here, although I assume they’re all happy to hear about it. It’s the EU’s regulating bodies who are responsible for preventing monopolies from forming who would be leading the crusade.”
I’m not happy about it. It seems very hypocritical to accuse MS of being monopolistic for bundling a browser while Every other important OS also bundles a browser.

]]> By: Brad Koch http://www.internetling.com/2009/07/25/windows-7-buyers-in-europe-will-have-to-choose-a-browser-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-6208 Brad Koch Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:45:10 +0000 http://www.internetling.com/?p=367#comment-6208 We've entered the gray area of economic regulation. By the laws that are on the books, Microsoft could legally be declared in the wrong, depending on how strict the regulators are. By packaging IE with Windows, they are opening themselves to the risk of being accused of the monopolistic tactic of bundling, where you pack extra unrelated products in with a main product, thereby discouraging competition. It's not something Microsoft hasn't already been accused of in the past; see United States v. Microsoft for more information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft). Also, it's not the FOSS world that's raising the issue here, although I assume they're all happy to hear about it. It's the EU's regulating bodies who are responsible for preventing monopolies from forming who would be leading the crusade. Anyway, if I had to make a guess, I'd assume that Microsoft would keep things simple and just offer IE and Firefox. Opera, Safari, and Chrome will not be options; they're commercially backed, and two of them by a couple of Microsoft's biggest competitors. But explanations will be very brief, and IE will definitely have a (recommended) tag next to it. We’ve entered the gray area of economic regulation. By the laws that are on the books, Microsoft could legally be declared in the wrong, depending on how strict the regulators are. By packaging IE with Windows, they are opening themselves to the risk of being accused of the monopolistic tactic of bundling, where you pack extra unrelated products in with a main product, thereby discouraging competition. It’s not something Microsoft hasn’t already been accused of in the past; see United States v. Microsoft for more information (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft).

Also, it’s not the FOSS world that’s raising the issue here, although I assume they’re all happy to hear about it. It’s the EU’s regulating bodies who are responsible for preventing monopolies from forming who would be leading the crusade.

Anyway, if I had to make a guess, I’d assume that Microsoft would keep things simple and just offer IE and Firefox. Opera, Safari, and Chrome will not be options; they’re commercially backed, and two of them by a couple of Microsoft’s biggest competitors. But explanations will be very brief, and IE will definitely have a (recommended) tag next to it.

]]> By: Michael "I hate IE" Howell http://www.internetling.com/2009/07/25/windows-7-buyers-in-europe-will-have-to-choose-a-browser-fair/comment-page-1/#comment-6196 Michael "I hate IE" Howell Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:25:53 +0000 http://www.internetling.com/?p=367#comment-6196 I don't think it's fair to force MS to mention other browsers. It is not fair to force them to leave out a browser? Why? Because it is their software, and forcing them to do something is invading the sovereignty of their computer (yes, MS has rights). However, it is not fair for MS to artificially keep you (or a hardware vendor) from removing that browser and including another one in its place. Or, even more extremely, to keep you from replacing MSHTML with an interface-compatible library (a libmozembed wrapper, anyone?). If this EU deal has proven anything to me, it is that the OSS world can be just as unreasonable as the proprietary one. Microsoft is in the right on this one. I don’t think it’s fair to force MS to mention other browsers. It is not fair to force them to leave out a browser?

Why? Because it is their software, and forcing them to do something is invading the sovereignty of their computer (yes, MS has rights). However, it is not fair for MS to artificially keep you (or a hardware vendor) from removing that browser and including another one in its place. Or, even more extremely, to keep you from replacing MSHTML with an interface-compatible library (a libmozembed wrapper, anyone?).

If this EU deal has proven anything to me, it is that the OSS world can be just as unreasonable as the proprietary one. Microsoft is in the right on this one.

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